{"id":306,"date":"2008-03-12T15:28:19","date_gmt":"2008-03-12T20:28:19","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/?p=306"},"modified":"2015-01-07T14:09:13","modified_gmt":"2015-01-07T18:09:13","slug":"conversacion-cumbia20-continua","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/?p=306","title":{"rendered":"Conversaci\u00f3n Cumbia2.0 Contin\u00faa"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/wp\/images\/buenos-aires.JPG\"><\/p>\n<p>thx to all for the continuing <a href=\"http:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/?p=304\">cumbia convo<\/a>, esp those who have left comments and\/or sent emails (is it telling that not all can be aired here?) i guess this stuff cuts close to the bone, but that&#8217;s how we like it here at w&#038;w &#8212; <em>jugando con fuego desde 2003!<\/em><\/p>\n<p>&#038; thx to KG for the collegial nod over @ the ethno-centric (heh) blog, <a href=\"http:\/\/musicologymatters.blogspot.com\/2008\/03\/critical-intimacy-and-web-20-authority.html\">musicologymatters<\/a><\/p>\n<p>speaking of ethno colleagues, <a href=\"http:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/?p=304\">my interlocutor<\/a> responds! [my words in blue; his in black]<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><font color=\"blue\">> Sure, there&#8217;s always something that<br \/>\n> smacks of &#8220;slumming&#8221; with this kind of class-crossing interest in<br \/>\n> music (and often a bit of racialized exoticism to boot), but in that<br \/>\n> way it&#8217;s no different than the mainstream embrace of jazz, blues,<br \/>\n> hip-hop, salsa, bachata, merengue, soca, reggae, you name it.<\/font><\/p>\n<p>Right: it&#8217;s certainly not unique in that respect.  But every one of those musics<br \/>\nis attended by the same kinds of complaints about cross-class appropriation (not<br \/>\nsure about bachata, but I can&#8217;t imagine that it isn&#8217;t): founded or unfounded, I<br \/>\nthink they indicate that there is an open and important debate about the issue.<\/p>\n<p><font color=\"blue\">> And I think that your comparison to Deep Forest is off-base<\/font><\/p>\n<p>Well, that&#8217;s freely conceded: that was a lame and lazy placeholder on which,<br \/>\nhowever, see below.<\/p>\n<p><font color=\"blue\">> and leads<br \/>\n> us to an unfair and facile dismissal rather than a closer engagement<br \/>\n> with what is going on in B.A. and the blogosphere. For the most part,<br \/>\n> the Zizek artists are not sampling distant sounds for their cosmo<br \/>\n> cocktail parties. Rather, they&#8217;re synthesizing their own versions of<br \/>\n> the music that pervades their local soundscapes (backyard sounds can<br \/>\n> carry). In a sense, one could argue that they&#8217;re grappling with class<br \/>\n> and cultural divisions in B.A. as much as they may be benefiting from<br \/>\n> them. It is a fair question to ask whether these scenes (will)<br \/>\n> intersect at all. Far as I know, there&#8217;s not much crossover between<br \/>\n> the neo-cumbia scene and the cumbia villera scene. It would be great,<br \/>\n> as has happened with the international and middle-class interest in<br \/>\n> funk carioca, to see this (re)surgence of interest in cumbia translate<br \/>\n> to new opportunities for the &#8220;everyday&#8221; &#8220;people&#8221; with whom you seem,<br \/>\n> understandably, concerned.<\/font><\/p>\n<p>All true.  On this point, I would, I guess, contextualize my instinctive<br \/>\nreaction against this kind of thing in terms of my own work, and actually life<br \/>\nexperience as well (in respect to which latter point, I will not bore you).<br \/>\n(Let me also warn you: the following section, unlike your mercifully orderly<br \/>\nparagraphs, is bound to be virtually incoherent and poorly phrased, as are most<br \/>\nof my thought processes and hence, emails.)  Obviously, as your last set of<br \/>\nquotes here indicate, it&#8217;s not only the poor\/working class\/whatever who are<br \/>\n&#8220;everyday people&#8221;; and obviously other actors have the right to create<br \/>\nunderstandings of their social situation using the tools at hand.  For me,<br \/>\nwhether or not that can be usefully understood and critiqued as &#8220;appropriation&#8221;<br \/>\nboils down to the terms on which these cultural fashionings are presented by<br \/>\ntheir creators and taken up by their targets.  <\/p>\n<p>That being the case, the phrasing in your original message (viz &#8220;cumbia resurgence,&#8221;<br \/>\nwhich I took to be the manner in which these artists present themselves, which seems<br \/>\n*not* to be the case given what you&#8217;ve written here) seemed to me to recall a<br \/>\nnumber of similar situations from throughout the Americas (and beyond) in which I<br \/>\nhave no trouble pointing the finger and saying &#8220;now, that&#8217;s *definitely* an<br \/>\noppressive form of appropriation.&#8221;  These are the cases in which a national<br \/>\nbourgeoisie finds, suddenly, to its surprise, that it is culturally rudderless and no<br \/>\nlonger in command of general esthetics (never mind that it never is anyway:<br \/>\ndiscursively, that&#8217;s not the point).  Usually, the result is that whatever is<br \/>\ncurrently popular among the working classes (or insert subaltern population<br \/>\nhere) is newly indicated as the &#8220;real&#8221; location of collective<br \/>\nself-understanding, but simultaneously derided as a debased version of some<br \/>\nalternatively &#8220;purer&#8221; or more interesting form of itself, and in need of<br \/>\n&#8220;correction&#8221; by an intelligentsia that holds the intellectual and\/or<br \/>\ntechnological keys to rescuing what is &#8220;actually valuable&#8221; about the popular.<br \/>\nThe procedure is then to adopt elements of the popular, in either a &#8220;cleaned<br \/>\nup&#8221; (ie &#8220;restored&#8221;) and\/or a &#8220;developed&#8221; form (watch for this word in Peru, and<br \/>\nyou will find it used to death), suitable for consumption by the class alters of<br \/>\nthose who have, thus far, created and consumed what I&#8217;m (lazily and this time,<br \/>\nacknowledgedly) calling &#8220;the popular.&#8221;  These versions of the popular seem<br \/>\ninevitably to smooth out precisely the elements that are pleasurable for the<br \/>\npopular classes from which the idioms are abstracted in the first place &#8211; those<br \/>\nthat mark the *difference* between a bourgeois cultural project and a popular one.  <\/p>\n<p>Now, that&#8217;s perhaps no big deal as long as great claims are not made by<br \/>\nthose involved to be &#8220;bettering&#8221; the popular in the first place, and as long as<br \/>\nthe goal is not to *replace* the popular in some fashion.  However I rarely see<br \/>\nthat happening in these situations, in Peru: in every case, historically, there<br \/>\nhas been a distinct effort to convince the public at large that the new version<br \/>\nof &#8220;the popular&#8221; is the legitimate and authentic one, and to replace the<br \/>\npopular with this bourgeois neopopular version of itself.  And it&#8217;s worked, in<br \/>\nfact, time after time.  Convenient, because time after time it&#8217;s allowed the<br \/>\nnational bourgeoisie to fashion itself as relativistically in-touch with<br \/>\npopular esthetics and appreciative of the contributions of the popular classes<br \/>\nto &#8220;national&#8221; culture, *even as they strain out everything that indicates a<br \/>\npopular esthetic opposed to the national bourgeoisie*.  This has definitely<br \/>\nbeen the case with cumbia as well, though not only cumbia.  And I think, when<br \/>\nyou have a case where an intelligentsia claims to find value in the popular,<br \/>\nbut only to the extent that it can be made into a new esthetic object, before<br \/>\nwhich the thing&#8217;s original is made to look foolish, then you&#8217;ve got a case of<br \/>\nsomething we might well call appropriation.<\/p>\n<p>(btw, I think Dan Party&#8217;s work on balada is interesting in this context: similar<br \/>\ncase, except that there is an open acknowledgment on the part of contemporary<br \/>\nbalada fans that the &#8220;dangerous&#8221; aspect of liking for balada revolves around,<br \/>\nprecisely, the danger of cross-class contamination.  This doesn&#8217;t seem to me to<br \/>\nlead to some sort of productive engagement, though, it leads those who like<br \/>\nbalada either to affect a kind of irony about it, or to refashion it using<br \/>\nalt-rock sounds and procedures.)<\/p>\n<p>This is all pretty stock, of course: nothing new here, this reading has been<br \/>\ndone to death.  (I would add: it&#8217;s been done to death because in any given<br \/>\nsituation there&#8217;s potentially a hell of a lot of truth to it.)  And there&#8217;s a<br \/>\nbig analytical difference between the national frame of reference I&#8217;ve just<br \/>\nbeen relying upon and the international dimensions of this cumbia trend.  But I<br \/>\nsay all this to indicate that a response to anything is shaped by one&#8217;s<br \/>\nbackground.  I&#8217;ll freely acknowledge that my general visceral reaction against<br \/>\nintellectual\/cosmopolitan\/bourgeois usages of working-class elements grows out<br \/>\nof the confirmed suspicion that these things are *not* usually carried out in<br \/>\nthe sense of exploration and alliance that seems to be indicated by Carolina<br \/>\nGonzalez, but rather, as you say above, cross-class slumming and an exoticist<br \/>\ncraving for a *mediated* sensuality\/authenticity\/spirituality [insert desired<br \/>\nquality of subaltern population here].  (Aside: in this context, actually, I<br \/>\nwould say that the lazy and already disowned Deep Forest reference comes out of<br \/>\nthe same background: it&#8217;s inappropriate for Buenos Aires perhaps, but it isn&#8217;t<br \/>\nfor Peru, where internal exoticism is certainly an engine of the historic<br \/>\ndynamic I&#8217;m talking about.)  And I would be willing to be argued out of that<br \/>\nsuspicion in any given instance, perhaps this one: but I don&#8217;t think that I<br \/>\nwant to change the fact that this is the default position from which I begin,<br \/>\nbecause it seems to be to be so close to the historic truth of artistic<br \/>\ninteraction and development.<\/p>\n<p>To phrase\/restate this all another way: I&#8217;m certainly a judgmental cynic, and<br \/>\nperhaps what I interpret as your optimism is more open-minded and fair.  But I<br \/>\nthink I need my way for the work that I do.  Maybe we should write brilliant<br \/>\nKeil-Feldish dialogues where we argue about who&#8217;s right, since the discussion<br \/>\nis so much more interesting than coming to any convincing conclusions about it.<\/p>\n<p>(No, I don&#8217;t actually think that I&#8217;m Steve Feld or Charles Keil.  You can speak<br \/>\nfor yourself.)<\/p>\n<p>About the blog: I guess, if you haven&#8217;t already gone ahead with it, I would<br \/>\nrather it were posted anonymously, though that&#8217;s fine by me.  (I&#8217;m also<br \/>\nincreasingly cynical and suspicious about the internet: I had a Facebook<br \/>\naccount for three weeks and shut it down because it terrified me.)<\/p>\n<p>Hope all&#8217;s well in Boston,<br \/>\n[redacted]\n<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>No further comment from me for now, though I&#8217;m tempted to add lots of little things. Let me leave you instead with this bit of apropos videyoga ::<\/p>\n<p><object width=\"425\" height=\"355\"><param name=\"movie\" value=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/EeZY6EVFbY4&#038;hl=en\"><\/param><param name=\"wmode\" value=\"transparent\"><\/param><embed src=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/EeZY6EVFbY4&#038;hl=en\" type=\"application\/x-shockwave-flash\" wmode=\"transparent\" width=\"425\" height=\"355\"><\/embed><\/object><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>thx to all for the continuing cumbia convo, esp those who have left comments and\/or sent emails (is it telling that not all can be aired here?) i guess this stuff cuts close to the bone, but that&#8217;s how we like it here at w&#038;w &#8212; jugando con fuego desde 2003! &#038; thx to KG [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[400,401,114,89,191,412,10,424,57,407],"class_list":["post-306","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-academic","tag-blogging","tag-class","tag-cumbia","tag-ethno","tag-internet","tag-latin","tag-nation","tag-race","tag-video"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/306","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=306"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/306\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":8578,"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/306\/revisions\/8578"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=306"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=306"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wayneandwax.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=306"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}